Supernatural Boss on Demon Dean’s Dark Side, ‘Questionable’ Sam, Castiel’s Moral Dilemma and More
The Winchesters are going down some very dark roads.
When The CW‘s Supernatural returns this fall (on Tuesday, Oct. 7), Dean will be a demon — and not a very nice one, executive producer Jeremy Carver tells TVLine.
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The newly minted fiend will also be MIA, leading Sam on his own unsavory journey as he attempts to find his missing brother.
So just how bad will things get? Let’s just say viewers may be left wondering, “Which one of these guys is the true monster?” the EP reveals.
TVLINE | You’ve had instances where the boys were possessed, but now Dean’s fully a demon. What made you decided now was the time to pull the trigger and go down that avenue?
Dean being a demon here ties into a deeper mythology in the show, that being the Mark of Cain and Cain. That’s really one of the places we started to get the idea. The show has made a point of saying how rooted these brothers are in, frankly, the mythology of the world, and to find another anchor that was literally around at the beginning of time made us feel like… It wasn’t so much the spectacular effect or whatever of Dean being a demon. It’s more just rooting him in something more final, something that will not necessarily totally go away even when/if he’s converted back from demonism.
TVLINE | Dean as a demon, how is that different from Dean just being possessed by a demon temporarily? What is he like?
Dean is not possessed by anything. It’s his own soul that’s been twisted into a demon soul, so this demon is not anyone other than Dean. So every thought, every action, that’s Dean, as opposed to some other demon possessing him. So while he’s a demon, that causes some complication of thought in him in that, “This is really me doing it.” It also motivates a certain bravado. “Yeah, this is me doing and owning it!” There’s a real period for Dean of deciding how dark he’s going to be and what kind of demon he’s going to be, because he can’t blame it on anyone else but himself. And then afterwards is when it will have the most effect on him because it was him. It was his actions that led him to becoming a demon. He pushed it with the Mark. He pushed Sammy away at the end of last season. He said, “I can do this by myself.” So there’s a certain consequence to all this that is almost more interesting to us than the actual demon part.
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TVLINE | Does it intensify some of his bad qualities? He’s not a bad person, but he has qualities like all of us that we’re not proud of.
Yes. I don’t think demon Dean is the nicest fellow around the block. And that’s by design. He’s not intended to be a particularly nice guy and that’s one of the things he struggles with. He knows how he’s acting. Sometimes, he’ll fight against that in odd ways. That’s the real conflict that’s within him right now when he’s a demon. Because it is him. He’s not unaware of what he’s doing. And although his soul is twisted, he is not without a certain amount of self-examination.
TVLINE | What does that mean for his relationship with Sam?
Their relationship very much ended on an up note last year. So as a sort of answer to the beginning of Season 8, when Sam actively didn’t look for his brother, Sam this year is really looking for his brother but doesn’t have any idea of what happened to him when the season starts. Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.
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TVLINE | So are you picking up right where you left off, or is there a bit of a time jump?
No, there’s a bit of a time jump. Not too long, just enough for Dean to have made some waves as a demon.
TVLINE | Mark Sheppard is now a series regular, so how does Crowley fit into the picture and what is his role in Dean’s new life?
That’s very much a topic of where we start the show. Crowley, as we see at the end of Season 9, is very excited about the idea of essentially howling at the moon with his new buddy Dean. We’ll see in Episode 1 that Crowley has slightly different designs to get that and will be proposing a business relationship, which Dean may or may not accept. That’s the subject of the first run of episodes — what is their relationship going to be?
TVLINE | And what can you say about Castiel’s story? Is he still in Heaven trying to manage things?
No. When we pick up Castiel, he will be on Earth. He will be alone for reasons that are explained, but not alone for too long, and he will be very much in a similar place where we last saw him in that he still has the stolen grace, still fading. He’s still in danger of death. The moral question for Castiel is, “How do I stay alive? How do I not be a burden on others [like] Sam, who’s got his own problems? How do I get grace to live without taking another angel’s grace?” So he’s in a bit of a quandary.
I am looking forward to seeing Jensen spread his acting wings, but I will miss the Dean that we have grown to love over 9 seasons. Dean was the heart of the show, the heart of the family. Without him, I can imagine that things will fall to pieces.
Completely agree, Lila. I’m heartbroken that they turned Dean into a demon, something evil. He already thought of himself as a poison and worthless, so I can’t see how he will live after this. I’m so sorry, Dean. :(
I trust Jensen to be able to play the conflict between Demon Dean and the old Dean we know and love and this should be really interesting to watch, besides it’s not going to last forever. Dean will be cured, but the storyline will continue and he’ll always be the holder of the Mark aswell which should hopefully be explored further. Just love that they’ve finally come up with such an interesting storyline and for once it heavily involves Dean. It also gives a chance for Sam to step up and show how useful and capable he is in Team Free Will.
The only thing I really don’t want is more What’s Wrong With Sam so I hope all this talk of Sam going down a dark path, is more emotionally dark and not another demon blood storyline or worse Sam taking the Mark from Dean.
Agree to disagree. I love Jensen and I’m sure he will do an amazing job, but I hate what they did to Dean and the incredible more guilt it’ll bring to his shoulders. As if he didn’t feel it enough.
I also agree to disagree with you. I love where the show is going and I know Jensen will do a great job and is so happy about where his character is now It will be a challenge and he likes that. He is very happy with the storyline and as long as he is happy I am too and looking so forward to this season
No, it won’t. You are finally getting a mytharc for Dean, and I really am happy for that. But in the end, you Dean will be seen as less bad than Sam. You will have your mytharc and you, Dean stans and Dean will all be able to look down your noses and say how Sam is so much worse than Dean was as a demon. Dean will bounce back from whatever he does, just like he never had to meet someone he tortured into being a demon, or run into Jacob Pond again. Dean will continue to be your bright shining boy and you will continue to sh*t on Sam. I’m glad you’re happy.
Well why not? Sam has been looking down on Dean for years and his fans have been calling Dean a rapist since season 6. If Sam is actually allowed to go a little dark saving his brother and actually be allowed to take responsibility for it, it may actually redeem the character a little for all the years we’ve had to watch him take his big brother for granted and generally act like an ungrateful, condescending brat.
@redstar
Sam hasn’t been looking down on Dean for years. If you want to see a character looking down on someone, think about Dean looking down on Sam in season 8 and 6 and 5. On the contrary, the past few seasons have shown us Sam thanking Dean for what he does to him, telling him how great he is etc. Sam is also the only character who does take responsibility for what he does, and seek to make amends for it. Dean doesn’t. He absolves himself of responsibility, and more frequently blames his actions on other people ie Amy, sending the text message. Sure, he feels guilty, just never guilty enough to change his behaviour, so his guilt is pretty pointless.
I totally agree with you. Dean is literally a demon and they want us to think of Sam as a monster?
shut up
and remember that being a demon was his worst nightmare
and his worst fear as in season 4 yellow fever he saw sam turn into yellow eyes demon
and in season 3 dean saw himself become a demon
Actually Jensen is so happy about it and is happy about the new direction
Am still wondering and hoping for away out.Dean as a demon,still sounds weird!
“Sam this year is really looking for his brother but doesn’t have any idea of what happened to him when the season starts.”
Ugh. I hope Sam finds out the truth about Dean ASAP and we don’t have more secrets and lying angst.
“Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.”
This really irritates me, especially after reading an interview with Jared when he was SO up on Sam’s quest to save his brother. Jared made it sound like it was finally Sam’s chance to save his brother. Sam is finally Sam, he’s not soulless or possessed by an angel. Just Sam, on a quest saving his big brother.
And now Carver is talking about him becoming a monster..? Freaking, Carver.
SPN has always been based in the brothers relationship & then lengths they will go for each other. It’s something to be proud of. And Carver sounds like he is making it an evil, scary thing.
Do not want.
Supernatural has been invested in making sure that Dean is always the better guy than Sam. It started in season four and has never really ended. If demon Dean kills puppies and kittens, then Sam will eat babies. I too had hopes for this season, but now, not to much.
Sadly I agree with you and Maddie. I think it would actually hurt Carver to have Sam save Demon Dean – his big bro – without turning Sam into a worse monster than Demon Dean.
Seriously? SPN has always made Sam out to be the special one, the important one with Dean’s only purpose being to take care of/exist for him.
How is that relevant? That has nothing to do with them always trying to make Dean look better and Sam being a scapegoat.
This! What the hell is wrong with JC? Why does he have to make Sam a monster just because Dean is a demon? How is this good story telling? In every good story you have the bad guy (Demon Dean) and the good guy (Human Sam). Why change that? Let Sam save Dean as a human and stop villifying him.
Nobody is making Sam out to be the bad guy. he just might do some questionable things.
If anything, this tells me that Sam will take center stage away from Dean, just like every other season except for 9.
Sam may have always held the arc, but Dean was always centre stage, much more than Sam from season 4 onwards. If you didn’t see it, there’s something wrong. It’s time to balance things up for both leads of the show. And, pls, let the angel storyline fall to the background where it belongs! BOTH brothers front and centre pls!
Just because Sam might do some evil while looking for his brother doesnt mean it wont b a great story! Look at all they’ve been through That would b enough crap to make any of us do some bad sh….
I don’t think it will actually turn that way, Sam is not a monster he always have the main idea to save his brother, I think he might help bad guys to get clues where Dean’s might be or maybe do so kind of pact with demon to know what really happened to his brother. Maybe Crowley will make him do bad thing but he will always do it for a good reason the main purpose is to save his brother so i don’t think it really make him a monster and i think Jared is right in his interview it will only be Sam searching for his brother with NOTHING that can stop him from doing it.
I don’t think it’ll be like this. I think that, just like Dean made some questionable things to save Sam in the past (which some fans saw him as a monster, especially last season), Sam this time will do whatever to save/help Dean. I’m thinking of “Mystery Spot”. And honestly? I hope it’ll be like this. I’ll support Sammy doing whatever it takes to bring his brother back. Just like I supported Dean in the past. Go, Sammy! ♥
Well said!
I’m really looking forward to season 10 – darker Dean, Sam trying to solve things, and Cas’s moral dilemma! I just want Team Free Will all back together and fighting the good fight (after they save Dean, of course). As long as they all survive for the next season and many more to come, then count me in! I really hope Cas gets his grace problem sorted out quickly, because I can’t imagine SPN without him. Love those three guys so much!
Huge ditto to this – i need Sam, Dean, AND Cas around until the very end.
Totally agree with you! They’re a great family (all three) together!
Need them to be who they are and brothers all to the end- and hopefully the end will be years down the road- Can hardly wait for 10 even though I dread it- too emotionally charged- but I will take it- seems that I am also emotionally invoved with this show since day one.
I totally agree.
oh wow I’m so excited about all these new story lines. Cas being Alone? Sam being messed up? Dean blaming himself? Such originality. Can’t wait!
LOOOL.
Perfect!
*searching for “like” button*
sarcasm much? ya idjits!!!!!!
Sam is gonna drink demon blood
YES PLEASE.
I hope so!
I really hope not, they need to keep Sam human for a change.
While part of me would like to see Sam stick to his morals and not go making deals etc, another part of my wants to see Sam go terrifyingly nuts in his mission. I’m talking drinking demon blood, slaughtering angels and demons, making deals, selling his soul, have Dean possessed, a trail of bodies left in his wake etc. I think it’s necessary for Dean to see how much Sqm cares for him. We’ve seen on the show that respecting your brothers wishes and doing what you agreed to do didn’t work, so perhaps this might. Add to that, when Dean starts complaining about it (and Dean will start complaining), Sam can just turn to him and say ‘Dean, this is exactly what you wanted’.
So you just all just automatically assume the worst about Dean, without even seeing the season start, then insult someone like me for stating the obvious, that most of you posting here are ESG, definitely not bi bro fans, definitely like Sam only, and Dean will never get an ounce of understanding here?
Well, I am a bi-bro fan who loves Sam and Dean and try to see the good and bad in BOTH, but it’s clear that the bias on this site will only be frustrating to someone like me. I’ll leave this site and try not to respond. Good day and have fun bashing Dean.
You’re not stating the obvious, you’re stating your opinion, and it’s just as biased as everyone elses.
I don’t feel it’s biased, I agree it seems like a lot of fans of the show like to see Sam do bad things and OMG this year Dean’s bad, well I’m looking forward to both brothers and can’t wait to see what messes their getting into this year, my only concern is if Dean gets too guilty after being evil because I love his sense of humor and I don’t want him to be so upset that he doesn’t want his pie.
u know what?? u can just shut the **** of! u have no right to bash dean! sam is so much better person?he gave up on his family for more then one occasion..he himself accepted he lied to dean on s9 finale.then why u r so dancing up and down with ur own delusion? sam himself knows what kind of jerk he was being with dean…and jared said on s10 finally sam will playing that brother he loves..who loves dean and do anything to get him back.so u can just shove ur delusional mind within ur congested mind and leave dean the hell alone!
How many times has Dean given up on his family, also more than once. He lied to Dean about being okay with whatever the consequences were, the original script shows this. Jared changed it to ‘I lied’ because he didn’t think the original dialogue was realistic. And I don’t have time to start listing out the times Dean lied in season 9 (and all the seasons before it). Jensen has also commented on occasion that Dean is a jerk and selfish etc.
shut your mouth!
Dean: What happened to you being fine with this?
Sam: I lied.
I don’t think Sam would ever have been ‘fine’ with Dean dying. But there’s a big difference between that and going to the lengths that Dean does to bring someone back from the dead.
GOD, I HOPE SO.
Jut don’t kill Cas, that’s all I ask. I’ve definitely got a big soft spot for him – would love to see him become a human and start hunting again with the Winchesters. Like Dean said, he’s family and they need him.
I quite agree with this!
I also agree!
Consigned! Cas is just as big a part of SPN for me now as Dean and Sam and I can’t imagine the show without all three of them. Great group of guys!
I am ok with Cas but what I felt happened last season (especially the finale) was that his stroryline became bigger than the brothers’. That’s when it’s bad. He can continue as series regular but his role must never eclipse Sam’s or Dean’s. His storyline must support Sam and Dean’s. Not the other way. And, I felt that’s what happened in Season 9.
Consigned! Cas is just as big a part of SPN for me now as Dean and Sam. Love all three guys!
Sorry but, I don’t care about Castiel, I still think this show is about TWO brothers, Sam&Dean, and always will be.
The show is about more than two people and it has been for years. Luckily, you appear to be in the minority. There is room for ALL the characters on the show, not just Dean and Sam. I hate that mentality that causes so much fandom wank, that no one else matters. I’m sure Jensen and Jared would disagree with you, because the entire cast is one big family. Cas is just as much a part of things as everyone else on SPN, and as Dean said in s8, “We need you. We’re family.” Please knock it off with the hate, no one has time for that immature stuff.
I disagree, Fernanda – all the characters add so much to the show, and I can’t imagine SPN with Cas and Misha. He’s part of the family and I’m really glad that Misha and Mark are regulars for s10 – it wouldn’t be right without them, and I can’t wait for season ten.
Sorry, but character hate isn’t welcome in the fandom. Dean, Sam, and Cas are all integral to the show and i hope they are all around to the very end. TEAM FREE WILL, BABY.
I would really love it if people stopped using the term Team Free Will. Sam and Cas barely interact and certainly aren’t a “team”. Second. Dean took Sam’s free will away last year and said he’d do it again. I would like to see Sam, Dean and Cas together next year, but this “Team Free Will” is really a joke now, especially for Dean who does whatever he wants regardless of others’ wishes.
Cas and Sam had a lot of interaction in season 9, Julia, and those three ARE a team. They have their ups and downs, but they’re best when they’re all working together. Besides, TFW is a good branding term for the show and why a lot of people watch, so there’s no reason to stop using it. I like it.
Let me back you up. I, too, don’t care about castiel.
The show is the two brothers.
The two brothers aren’t going anywhere, but there is plenty of space on the show for other beloved characters. It’s absurd to act like they have to limit the cast so much – thank god the showrunners don’t disresepct the supporting cast as much as a small faction of the fandom does, because you know? I love all the characters. Cas is awesome and I can’t wait to see what comes next for TFW.
The thing is that if it’s just about Sam and Dean, how are they gonna get over their codependency? They both need to get over each other. I mean, they’re allowed to be bffsies or whatever, but they need to be able to move on when the other dies. They need strong relationships with other characters, their own friends etc. Especially Sam. Dean’s closer to Cas, Charlie, Garth, and Sam’s just kinda lonely without Dean, don’t you think?
Same. Cas is awesome. I’m pretty sure Jim Michaels and Andrew Dabb both said towards the end of s9 that they can’t picture SPN without him, and I definitely agree.
Sorry but, I don’t care about Castiel at all, I still think this show is about TWO brothers, my boys, Sam&Dean, and always will be.
I disagree, Fernanda – all the characters add so much to the show, and I can’t imagine SPN with Cas and Misha. He’s part of the family and I’m really glad that Misha and Mark are regulars for s10 – it wouldn’t be right without them, and I can’t wait for season ten.
Please stop spreading hate. Cas is an awesome character and is a big part of Team Free Will (which is the heart of the show for so many people). He’s been around since season 4 and he’s definitely gotten to be a huge fan favorite. If you can’t say something nice, then just keep the rude opinions to yourself.
Speak for yourself, fernanda, the show is about all the characters. Castiel rocks and he’s an unofficial Winchester as far as I’m concerned. Dean even called him family, which is basically the biggest compliment he can pay to someone (given how much he values his family).
The two brothers aren’t going anywhere, but there is plenty of space on the show for other beloved characters. It’s absurd to act like they have to limit the cast so much – thank god the showrunners don’t disresepct the supporting cast as much as a small faction of the fandom does, because you know? I love all the characters. Cas is awesome and I can’t wait to see what comes next for TFW. Crowley’s also awesome, and Charlie, and Kevin, and Bobby, and on and on and on. How dull it would be if there were only two people who got any narrative treatment.
You might not care about Castiel, but a LOT of us do. He’s a huge fan favorite and Misha has put so much wonderful work into the show. He’s part of the family, and very good friends with J2. Besides, the show is about the entire cast: Dean, Sam, Cas, Crowley, Charlie, Kevin, Mama Tran, Sherriff Jody, Bobby, Lisa, John, Mary..
Bringing other characters on doesn’t mean the story doesn’t revolve around the brothers, but Cas adds a great balance and dynamic to the show and means a lot to Dean and Sam (and so many fans).
Agreed, Castiel is awesome. Definitely a big part of the SPN family for me and many others!
” Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.”
Are you kidding me? Dean is a DEMON and Sam gets to be the ~true monster~. Find a plotline that DOESN’T involve taking a crap on one of your main characters. Please.
This all over. Dean is a demon, but whatever Sam does will be sooooo much worse. This has gotten so tiresome. Will there ever be a season where Sam is allowed to come out of it clean?
“Are you kidding me? Dean is a DEMON and Sam gets to be the ~true monster~. Find a plotline that DOESN’T involve taking a crap on one of your main characters. Please.”
“This all over. Dean is a demon, but whatever Sam does will be sooooo much worse. This has gotten so tiresome. Will there ever be a season where Sam is allowed to come out of it clean?”
This so much! I guess Carver, like Kripke before him, has the attitude “Sorry Sam Fans, Dean the real hero”.
Still S10 sounds very promising with strong story arcs for both Sam and Dean, separately (and hopefully once they’re reunited) as well as for Cas and Crowley :).
Again you people are joking. Sam is ALWAYS the important one! What have we always heard about Sam? That he was special. that he was super smart. that he was the only one that could save the world(and he did) while everybody always tells Dean how stupid, unimportant, and insignificant he is! I love Sam but you ESG can’t stand it if he’s not worshiped at all times!
How many times have we heard that Sam is a monster, while Dean is considered a hero when he does the exact same thing that Sam does? This isn’t about being important or ‘worshipped’, both characters are important. This is about both characters being considered equally for what they do. Dean broke the first seal, Sam broke the last. Sole blame gets put on Sam, by all and sundry. Dean roles has been whitewashed over. Sam doesn’t try to get Dean out of Purgatory (because he believed he was dead) and he’s hated for it. Dean doesn’t try to get Castiel out of Purgatory (despite knowing he’s alive and knowing there is a way out) and what he did is whitewashed. Sam believed Dean was dead, and it was the worst thing in the world. Dean believed Mrs Tran was dead and there was nothing made of it. Sam ‘chose a demon over his own brother’ and it’s still being used against him, Dean chose an angel and a vampire over his own brother, and he just denies that he did it.
Last season, Dean violated Sam in the worst possible way. Add to that he lied to him and made him believe he was losing his mind for months, and nothing was made of it. Dean’s own actions and own choices led him to becoming a demon, but guaranteed the talk next season will be about the ‘true monster’, Sam. This is why some fans are so ticked off. It has nothing to do with being an ‘ESG’ or whatever other silly title you decide to throw out. It’s about the show persisting in blackening other characters so that Dean can look clean, despite him being as dirty as everyone else.
Thank you!
Dean couldn’t have gotten Cas out of Purgatory without a full moon, blood form a virgin, and blood from a Purgatory native. But you say he could have done all that to get Cas
out? You’re holding THAT against him?Seriously? As for Sam not looking for Dean, it’s not that he thought he was dead that made people angry, it’s the way he acted towards him after he found him alive. Dean was wrong to push the not hunting issue, but still, Sam treated him like he was sorry he was alive. I don’t hold that against Sam, because, that guy in season 8 was NOT Sam, not the one I know and love.
They have NEVER made Dean the hero. What ever happened in season 5, in the end, Sam was the sole hero, all by himself.Which was Kripke’s plan all along which tells you which one HE thought was the hero of the story. And yes, there certainly were people who called Dean out for breaking the first seal. Dean hasn’t been whitewashed. That angel woman called him out front and center, calling him nothing but a murderer and saying that she hated him. Sam also told him that he did more harm than good. And you think this is making Dean look good?
Dean NEVER chose anybody over Sam! Sam left him for dead, he didn’t have anybody else but Benny. And when the heck did he chose Cas over Sam? The only time he chose to hang out with Cas over Sam was after they agreed to go their separate ways, and that was SAM’s idea, Dean just agreed with it. He was never mad because of Sam unknowingly setting Lucifer free. He was hurt because the little brother he took care of and sacrificed all his life for chose a demon over him.
Nobody is giving Dean a free pass for tricking Sam into the angel possession, least of all me. He was very wrong, period.And I stand behind Sam’s right to be angry and hurt. But “violated him in the worst possible way”? I disagree. It was a violation, but he didn’t set out to harm Sam in any way. He acted irrationally and impulsively to be sure, but his intentions were never to harm Sam. You act like he was acting like a malicious, horrible bastard. There’s no excusing his actions, no matter the reason, but still, Dean is not this horrible prick you’re making him out to be.
They’ve painted Dean, since season 2, as bloodthirsty, sadistic, drunk, a whoremonger, the guy who has called chaos in the natural order, and now, he’s a cold blooded murderer. What exactly do you want? How much do you want Dean to be beat down before you’re satisfied?
Dean didn’t choose an “angel” and “vampire” over Sam, Sam wasn’t there to help. If Dean hadn’t trusted that “vampire” he would still be in Purgatory.
As for Sam not looking for Dean, that’s the problem, Sam didn’t even bother to investigate, to ask questions, to confirm. He just made a huge assumption. After everything Sam has witnessed and experienced, he just assumed Dean was dead without looking into it. Sam had a lot of resources, Bobby’s books, the Men of Letters library, he could have called Garth, something, but Sam did nothing.
As for Dean lying to Sam for (weeks, NOT months) he wanted to come clean but Gadreel threatened to let Sam die if he did. You are deliberately ignoring this.
Are *you* joking? Carver’s treated Sam’s character like dirt since he took over. “Sam didn’t look for Dean because he thought Dean was dead” “Sam left teenage Kevin in Crowley’s hands because he ‘had no leads’. Fans are pissed. “Sam de-bros Dean” and fans roar. “Sam unaccountably blames Dean for stopping him from closing the gates of hell” and fans roar; “Sam unaccountably blames Dean for always being willing to do the sacrificing as long as it didn’t affect him” and fans reasonably go ballistic. For most of the last two seasons the writing for Sam has been crappy, making Sam look whiny and self entitled at best and the universes’ worst brother, well, at worse. It’s nothing to do with ESGs, it’s wanting (and finding mostly lacking in S8 & S9) equivalent care with writing Dean and Sam.
@angel64.
That was just one way of opening Purgatory, Benny showed him another way, we later saw them get in via the reapers. What I am pointing out is that Dean was in a similar situation to Sam, except he knew where Castiel was, that he was alive and that there was a way in, and he did nothing. So you’d think he would be more understanding of Sam who did nothing because he believed Dean was dead.
How a characters ‘acts’ is subjective, which is why the words are important. Sam, for me, acted stunned, shocked, hesitant etc. He never acted as if he didn’t want Dean around. He said he didnt want to back hunting, and why would he? It has cost him everything, and many times. However, not wanting what Dean wants does not mean that he doesn’t care about him. Should he have lied to Dean and said ‘Yes, I want to hunt with you’ and changed his mind later? Sam told Dean the truth, that he wanted out.
Re. the hero, yet nobody acknowledged that Sam was that hero. What he is remembered for is breaking the last seal. Lisa and Charlie both acknowledge Dean as the guy who saved the world.
If people attack Sam for saying it, then yes, it makes Dean looks good. And Sam didn’t say that Dean does more harm than good. He said ” You think you’re my savior, my brother, the hero. You swoop in, and even when you mess up, you think what you’re doing is worth it because you’ve convinced yourself you’re doing more good than bad… But you’re not” In other words, when it comes to Sam, Dean is doing him harm, and he is. Were is not for Dean’s deal in season 2, Sam would probably be in heaven, the first seal would never have been broken and Lucifer would not have been released etc.
Sam didn’t leave Dean for dead. He believed that Dean was dead, and did not try and bring him back. There is a difference. After Purgatory, Dean also chose Benny. He declared Benny was more of a brother than Sam had ever been. In season 4, Dean chose to believe the angels and what they were saying. Were it not for getting a fit of conscience at the end, Dean would have duped by the angels just as much as Sam was duped by Ruby. And why did Sam ‘chose a demon over him’ (ignoring the fact that Sam asked Dean to with them and Dean said no. And ignoring that Ruby had the intel and the blood), to stop the Apocalypse. Did Dean really expect Sam to chose no hurting Deans feelings over saving the lives of a couple of billion people?
Yes, I would consider overriding someones express wishes, wishes that have been tattooed on Sam’s chest as violating someone in the worst possible way. His intentions are irrelevant (or at least Sam’s intentions are always irrelevant, it’s only his actions that matter, so the same should apply for Dean). If Dean had Sam’s best interest at heart, then he would have let him go with Death, he’d have let him have rest. He didn’t. Dean knew that Sam would rather die than be possessed, and Dean gave to go ahead for Sam to be possessed.
I’m not saying that Dean is a ‘horrible prick’ or a ‘malicious, horrible bastard’, I’m just pointing out what he has done.
I’ve no interest in seeing Dean ‘beaten down’, mainly because that will lead to more woobie, single manly tear, persecution complex Dean and I’m bored of that. What I would like Dean to do is grow up and accept some responsibility for what he does. I would like for Dean to apologise for what he did to Sam, and apologise sincerely, not one of those non-apologies that he throws out so that Sam will shut up and get back with the programme. I’d like for Dean to see Sam and treat Sam as a person, not as a job.
@Sally. Sam believed Dean was dead. Why he believed this we might never know. It could be because he imploded, that the cumulative effect of all the trauma he endured over the years took it toll.
And when you have the ability to bring someone back from the dead, then a person is never dead, so how would you confirm it?
@angel64
Okay, he lied to him for nine episode so either a few months or a lot of weeks. And everybody has a reason to lie. Sam does when he lies. Didn’t stop them from being lies.
Except that Kripke always stated that, while they are both heroes, Sam was the ultimate Savior/hero. :)
Really, some here are blowing his comment out of proportion. Think of “Mystery Spot” or even after Dean died on Season 3. Sam will do some questionable things to save his brother. I’m definitely supporting and rooting for him to be able to this time instead of condemn him for it.
And I no longer trust the writers. I hope you are right, but they have finally broken the trust with me so I will not trust them again.
I’m excited to see what Jensen’s going to do with Demon!Dean. I still wish he could have been Michael for 5 minutes and I know I will enjoy him as a powerful, blood-thirsty Knight of Hell.
I don’t mind Sam doing questionable things to get Dean back. Not one bit. That’s what I was hoping/expecting him to do in season 8. Better late than never! I don’t care how dark the brothers get as long as they fight for each other. I’m excited for season 10 and I haven’t been excited about this show since Carver took over.
Sorry Dan, I wasn’t replying to you. I don’t know how my comment ended up here lol.
I hope Cas’ story is better handled than his story last year (9.06 and 9.22 being the expections. I loved those episodes. 9.03 not so much). Same actually goes for Dean. I’ll be certainly missing the real Dean, but at least Demon!Dean sounds interesting. I HATE Cas being alone. I want Team Free Will back, or at the very least, I want the writers to give him someone to connect with instead of the odd one episode characters without personality or characters that are evil or characters that, while around for a while, barely appear, like Hannah, or end up dead, like Gadreel. I’m not sure I like Carver’s wording “but not alone for too long” though. Please let whoever he ends up with don’t suck. I want my favorite character to form some positive relationships for once if I can’t have him with Dean and Sam (though I’d prefer that). I also want him and Dean to reunite quickly. I want to see how Cas reacts when he sees demon!Dean for the first time, plus I love their friendship, though I guess Dean as a demon might put a damper on that for a while. As for Sam, I’m curious to see how dark he’ll get for Carver to call him a monster, though I also think it won’t do his character any favors because it is not the first time he went off the rails and it’s like he still didn’t learn anything from his past mistakes. But maybe that’s the whole point? Maybe season 10 will be about him finally learning his lesson? In any case, I’m looking forward to Sam interacting with some new people. Usually it’s just Dean who gets to do that.
Word – I really just want Team Free Will back together. That’s the heart of the show as far as I’m concerned. Hopefully they don’t keep Cas separate for too long – that was one my least favorite parts of season 9. I just want him and Sam to save Dean, deal with his darkness, and then get back to the MoL bunker and work together.
I thought Sam finally learned his lesson in season 8 when he believed Dean was dead and he didn’t go nutso trying to bring him back,. Because he didn’t do that nobody died, there was no major consequences etc. However, the show showed us that Sam was wrong for not doing that. So I don’t know if there is a point in the show trying to teach Sam a lesson because what the lesson is changes every season.
Yeah, I got nothing. It’s always one step forward, ten steps back with Sam. Maybe that’s why I have such a hard time understanding his character.
Me too. I know Sam ‘internalises’ but that excuse has been used to almost farcical level at this stage and it’s coming across more as the writers going ‘We don’t know why either, we’re just going to have him do it) A big problem lies with Dean having the pov in the show. He only reacts to what Sam does, he never tries to understand why he does it.
A second problem is the expectation that Dean has of him, that also changes. In season 3, Dean was telling Sam to carry on the family business etc, and this is what Sam did. He used what was available to him to save lives and get revenge, and that is the Winchester way. However, Dean tore Sam apart for doing that. Dean doesn’t want Sam making deals etc. They learned the lesson about natural order and stuff and letting things be but when Sam does live an apple pie life, Dean tore Sam apart for that! And the worrying this is that no matter what Sam does in season 10, it won’t be what Dean would have wanted, so he will tear Sam apart for it. And odds are Sam will just stand mutely by while Dean is doing this. No wonder Sam is difficult to understand.
The constantly changing expectations of Dean drive me nuts. “Keep on hunting” “Wait don’t do what’s actually saving people” And before anyone says anything at first Dean thought Sam was using his natural innate powers, demon blood wasn’t even an issue. Then they make an agreement not to look if they think the other is dead. Sam does it and Dean gets pushed out of shape. Then Sam wants to leave hunting and Dean tells him one last job, shut the gates of hell. Then right when Sam is about to do that it’s not good enough, Dean wants the gates of Hell open so Sam won’t die, even though Sam is more than willing to make the sacrifice (Sorry nice Latino lady that wanted to have a fling with Dean, he’s not keeping his promise to keep YOU out of Hell. You’re going anyway!) Now Sam is going to dark things to save Dean, just so Dean can bang him over the head with we had an agreement! How dare you turn dark! I was a better person and I was a DEMON SAM! Yeah, not looking forward to this.
@Percyowner
“Then they make an agreement not to look if they think the other is dead.”
This “agreement” never existed. It was a LOL!Canon carver and Singer invented to create an idiotic conflict and make Sam extremely out of character.
@Dan. Sam, Dean and Bobby all confirmed that there was an agreement. Not seeing it on-screen doesn’t mean it’s not canon. We never saw Sam sit his SAT’s but his result is canon.
An agreement like that makes sense. Sam and Dean have the ability and the means to tear the world apart to find each other, bring each other back from the dead etc, so I think an agreement like that would be necessary to safeguard the lives of others.
They had Sam acting like he not only didn’t care anymore about Dean, but when he found out he was alive, he acted like he couldn’t stand him. But you think that was a good thing? Would you have felt that way if their positions had been reversed?
I was very glad to have the Sam that I know and love back. Hated season 8 passionately.
I thought they had Sam act as if he was numb, shocked and still processing grief. I certainly don’t think they had him act like he didn’t care about his brother or act like he couldn’t stand him (but then again, I like Sam so I’m not going to think the worst about him). Someone not reacting as you expect them doesn’t mean that they don’t care.
And I think that if Dean thought that Sam was dead and didn’t make a deal to bring him back, fans would have understood. it’s only when Sam does it that it’s wrong.
Hey guess what Jo, I LIKE SAM TOO! So I guess to you I don’t like him just because I defend Dean? It’s alright though, because you always get this wrongful accusation if you dare to defend Dean,I’m used to it by now.I guess then that I should just assume that you don’t like Dean because you so strongly defend Sam. Yeah, that makes sense.
And many of us didn’t see, “numbness”. We saw Sam get irritated and act like he couldn’t stand his brother’s presence, how is that’numb, shocked, and still processing grief’?.Also he left Kevin to fend for himself. And no,it wasn’t because we wanted to think anything bad of Sam. I was disappointed because I thought so much better of Sam.I also didn’t like that Dean was a buddy with a vampire or that he sent that douchebag text message. And where were you when the show, through Charlie, blamed Dean for Sam not going back to Amelia, even though Dean encouraged him to do so? (Oh, I remember, Dean doesn’t get any credit for this because somehow, i don’t see how, he “guilt tripped Sam into staying, right?)
I don’t see where SPN has ever somehow made Dean out to be this blameless white night, when it’s looked opposite to me. And here you all are, going off the deep end, making these assumptions based on a few words.
I’ve no problem with you defending Dean. You didn’t defend Dean, you smeared Sam. (And lose the persecution complex, it’s ridiculous).
See, where I have difficulty with your claim that you are ‘bi-bro’ is when you say things like ‘act like he couldn’t stand his brothers presence’. This type of hyperbole more than suggests that you have an unfavourable opinion of the character, and are willing to jump to a negative assessment of his behaviour when there is a more positive one available. Why would Sam act like he couldn’t stand Dean’s presence? Do you think he doesn’t love his brother or that he wanted him dead? I mean, in season 6, Dean didn’t go with Sam, he chose to stay with Lisa. He didn’t dance a jig when he saw Sam alive. Do you think that Dean was irritated and acted like he couldn’t stand his brothers presence or that he was shocked, numb and still grieving?
If Sam imploded and couldn’t look for Dean then it’s only logical that he would be unable to look for Kevin.
When Dean was ‘encouraging’ Sam to go with Amelia, he made sure to tell Sam that ‘at least one of us should be happy’ ie if Sam went with Amelia then Dean would be unhappy. Like it or not (and I assume you don’t like it), this is a guilt trip.
And I’m not going off the deep end, I made a comment based on a comment. If you’ve got such a problem with that that you feel the need to throw out petty, childish little comments and criticise anyone who doesn’t agree with you, then grow up a small bit, accept that some people don’t see things the way that you do, and don’t reply to them.
Exactly. He was completely out of character and I still get upset when people defend what Carver did. Well, at last Jared agrees with us and now will have Sam doing whatever it takes to get his brother back. He said that this is the Sam he loves, too. Just like some of his fans. :)
Okay, but here’s the thing: In season 3, when Dean didn’t want Sam to try and bring him back, he had just spent a year mentally preparing himself. He was resigned to his fate. He’d also seen Sam tearing himself apart trying to find some way-any way- to try and save him from it. He did’t want his little brother doing that for the rest of his life. In season 8, however, Dean didn’t die. He poofed away. And Sam didn’t do a thing. Didn’t bother looking, even though there was every likelihood that his brother was still alive, somewhere, needing his help.
In season 3, Sam knew where Dean was going and he knew that it was because of the deal he made. Of course Sam would tear himself apart trying to stop it. In season 8 we had a completely different Sam. One who had learned about the dangers of messing with the natural order and making deals, who had seen Dean die multiple times, and had spent a couple of thousand years in the Cage and had lost his mind. Different Sam.
Add to that Sam imploded, that he just drove around before hitting the dog. The thing about not looking is where do you even start? Dean could have been on earth, in Heaven or in Hell. There was no reason to guess Purgatory because that was only for monsters, and Dean wasn’t a monster.
YES. I don’t know why they keep making Cas run around on his own. The show probably even gets more views in the episodes where Team Free Will (and especially Dean and Cas) are together anyway, because who doesn’t like seeing their favourite characters /ACTUALLY INTERACTING WITH EACH OTHER FOR A CHANGE/!?!?
“the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster” and then, Dean will be guilty of anything bad Sam did! So we’ll have the return of cheerleader guilty Dean in the second half the season, only cooking, bathing and change diapers of his amazing little bro, while angst and lost himself in all the blame he can reach… Nothing really gonna change.
Okay no one is asking the big Question. If Sam cure Dean of being a Demon will this not close the gates of hell. That was the last trial he hadn’t completed.
“because he (Dean) can’t blame it on anyone else but himself.” Dean blame himself is all what he ever did!
Different would be see Sam assuming some guilt over what happened to Dean, how to use his brother as a weapon against “God” or disown him for half of a season. Dean wasn’t just pushing Sam away, he was saving Sam’s life (again) at the end, when he chosen put only himself in the meat grinder.
Got any hope in spn is a waste of time.
oh sorry, i posted in the wrong place, it’s not a reply to Gerald. Sorry!
I like that Carver has acknowledged this. Dean does tend to put the blame for his actions on others, the Apocalypse being the most notable example. He blamed that solely on Sam, but he was just as culpable. Dean might feel guilt, but that’s not the same as accepting blame.
You can’t be serious! Dean ALWAYS blames himself for every darned thing!And he DID blame himself, and himself ONLY, for Kevin’s death!Dean’s whole problem is that he thinks he’s not worth 2 cents!
Well, I gotta get outta here, because clearly this is an all Sam girl site where Dean is just gonna be maligned. Audios.
And Sam blame Dean and only Dean for Kevin’s death and totally exempted Gadreel for killing Kevin, even called him a “real friend”.
Dean was as guilty as Sam in the Apocalypse? Dean has its share, but it is quite different. Dean broke because it was being tortured in hell, with no one to help him or any hope, while all that Sam needed was to have his ego inflated by Ruby, and later he also blamed Dean about Rubi too, twice! First saying that he did go to Ruby and all the Blood stuff cause Dean left him alone and after, with Ruby’s betrayal, Sam said he chooses her over his brother because Dean’s treated him like his little brother and not how Rubi did, as the great powerfull Sam. Sam was not alone, he choose to ignoring all Dean’s appeals, called Dean weak and coward then almost killed him. And Dean is the one that tend to put the blame for his actions on others?
How many times Sam accepting blame when it did not make him the great lone hero?
THANK YOU! The whole time people talk about Dean breaking the first seal and the apocalypse being his fault.
I think they forget that Dean was tortured 30 years before he finally gave in. Anyone else(i think i can incude sam) would have cracked way earlier..
Anyway,thanks for saying it.
But Dean made the choice to go to hell. He choose to deal with a demon. Dean new that hell is no picnic and over season 3 learn what will happen to him. You can sorta say that Dean went to a Demon first to get what he want. Sam just followed in his steps and Dean did make it easy for Ruby to get close to Sam even helping at times during season 3.
I totally disagree, Sean – Dean ALWAYS blames himself. The man is a ball of self-loathing and I feel so bad for him. He is constantly shat on (starting with their father) in favor of Sam, so.. you know, I’m glad demon!Dean is going to be able to get rid of some of his emotional baggage. He needs it. Dean is the hero of this story, as far as I’m concerned. I just hope Sam and Cas are able to pull him out of the darkness – or maybe he can even save himself.
I don’t agree with either of you. Dean doesn’t blame everyone for everything, but nor is he the sole hero of the story. This isn’t The Dean Show. He is, however, the easier character to like and understand, and therefore easier to write. It will feel VERY lopsided and biased if they make DEMON Dean the continued hero of the tale. The writers will have to walk a tightrope between the brothers this season, esp. if they’re sending Sam down dark paths to save Dean.
This season, I want Sam to be the hero. I want Demon Dean to stay as long as possible with Sam eventually saving him at or near the end of the season. Dean has mostly been the good guy while Sam was ‘the one who needs saving’. I think Dean turning into a demon would be a good opportunity for a reversal; Dean going down the dark path and Sam having to rescue him. That being said, I wouldn’t mind if Sam did some ‘questionable’ things in order to try to get his brother back. However I just don’t want Sam to become a bigger ‘monster’ than Dean. Sam has to be the savior. Sam and Cas could work together to bring Dean back from the dark path. Atleast this is what I want to happen in season 10.
What? One of Dean’s main “problem” is blaming himself, even when it wasn’t even his fault.
Sam is not guilty for what happened to Dean. That was all Dean’s own doing.
What gets me is thee people claiming that Dean doesn’t accept blame for things, when his whole life is nothing but hating and blaming himself.
I agree that Dean wasn’t pushing Sam away at the end to be malicious. He, in his own words, thought he was poison and he didn’t want to drag Sam along.
Completely agree. Thank you!
No it can’t because that was a spell. If he “cures” Dean then it will be just that. The spell was broken when Sam didn’t finish with Crowley. So in order to close the gates of Hell they would have to go thru all the trials again plus the trials for Heaven. That was the spell. So in just “curing” a demon that’s all he’d be doing like the priest in the video they had. He cured a demon and Hells gates were still open.
I don’t think so. Sam had to read the Enochian words to complete each of the first two trials. As long as he doesn’t say that phrase, I don’t think Sam will close the Gates of Hell (and die). The priest in Clip Show cured at least one demon without the ‘cure’ being a Trial.
Good question Gerald
It wont close the gates of hell because if you remember after every trial there was latin that needed to be spoken to finish the trial.
So Cas won’t be looking for Dean? That seems wildly out of character. Dean is supposed to be his best friend. Why is this show still carrying on the boring angel story and ignoring the relationships that make the show interesting?
Maybe it’s because Cas still thinks he is dead? But I agree, it’s wildly OOC because he and Dean are best friends. Cas would and should be there right with Sam, helping him. They’re family, after all! Team Free Will is why I watch this show.
I wonder if one reason as to why Cas won’t be helping Sam longterm is that Cas needs to be away from Sam so Sam can properly go evil with no one holding him back. Though I also think him not wanting to be a burden to others and thinking he is worthless without his grace fits Cas’ character quite well. Maybe he’s feeling helpless and thinking that on top of being no help, he’s also a hindrance, making it that much more difficult for Sam to find Dean, so he steps back and tries to get his grace back first so he can finally be a true help again. I just hope the show actually bothers to show us Cas’ head space on this issue.
Maybe so – I’d really like to see some internal exploration of Cas’s mindset, but I do hope he realizes that fading grace or no, he’s still important to the Winchesters and useful to TFW. I wonder if maybe somehow his fading grace will tie into how to get rid of the Mark of Cain? That would be interesting..
Crap, now I’m worried about Sam as well. This whole thing seems to be building up to a demon!Dean vs evil!Sam showdown :(
Well you can rest assured that Dean as a demon will STILL be better than Sam. Dean will end up saving Sam from himself instead of the other way around.
God Percy, you are such a broken record. I guess all the people that have told Dean how worthless he is and how much more important Sam is, and that angel broad calling him a bloodthirsty killer who she hated doesn’t matter.
Did it ever occur to you that this might really be a great storyline for Sam, getting to save his brother?
By the way,Cain gave Dean his mark because he saw in him a natural murderer. That tells me that the show sees him that way too. Which would make Sam the better person.
SPN has always painted Sam out to be the stronger brother because he successfully turned away from any evil impulses he may have had. They painted him, NOT Dean, as the main hero who sacrificed himself to save the world. But you won’t be happy until he’s made a God and Dean is made to grovel at his feet.
Angel64, couple of things here. Percy was being sarcastic. Also, just because a character on the show sees Dean as a natural murderer doesn’t mean the show is telling us this, as fact. Not even close. SPN has NEVER painted Sam as the stronger brother, not even close again. What show are you watching? Your bias is impressive! Lay off the hyperbole, maybe…unless, of course, you’re just enjoying the drama. In which case, carry on, my dear!
Considering how often you say the same thing, you’re just as much of a ‘broken record’ as percysowner is. Only difference is that she is critical towards the show, and you are critical towards people.
Woow! Too much info, I wanted some data but I guess he said too much. I would have rathered season 10 to be a surpriese and find out what´s happening next in each episode.
I know Jensen will give an outstanding acting performance throughout the season because of his performance in the las episode which was just perfect!
I love the idea of Sam being kind of a monster ( which makes the character misterious and sexier) and the Dean/Crowley duet.
People begging for TFW need to remember that Misha being a regular carries some of the workload and allows for Jared and Jensen to have time off, so just logistically it makes sense that he has a separate storyline for at least part of the season.
Otherwise, these spoilers sound great! I hated S8 and 9, but the S10 spoilers so far have been intriguing.
I’d like a mix of separate and joint storylines, personally. I like it when re guys work apart AND together, but the relationships and dynamic between all three is why I watch! I’m glad Misha is a trilateral again, though. Love that guy.
This sounds soooo effing stupid. I hope this is the last season, everything is just recycled trash, the writers never listen to the fans, and it’s become a terrible and unhappy fandom.
Agreed. The brother angst is so tired, as is Cas being alone and in trouble, with no help from the Winchesters; I’m even sick of Crowley at this point. The fandom is ripping itself to shreds, and I’ve got one foot out the door. To be honest, it’s like a train wreck; ugly, but I can’t quite look away.
I’m tired of Cas being on his own with no help from his real family – no, not the angels, the Winchesters. Dean said at the end of s8 that Cas was family and they needed him, which is basically a massive compliment coming from Dean Winchester. So maybe he won’t be on his own so much next season.
They’re keeping Dean and Cas apart and having Dean screw some random waitress so they can pull a big fat “no homo”. I suppose it’s better than the queer baiting.
In season 9, Dean completely forgot literally everything he did, said, or felt for Castiel in season 8. The two seasons side by side are like two different shows, but especially two different Deans.
*nudges you helpfully out the door* :D
Thing is, Dean called i. Way back in Season three in the nightmare world after he shot his doppelganger it went all black eyed and said: ‘you cant escape me dean you’re going to die and this, this is what you’re gonna become.’
But never fear, Dean! Sam will always be worse than you!
Dear CW, Fire Jeremy Carver. Save SPN, and get him away from Sam and Dean once and for all. Twisting the show around so once again, Sam looks worse than Dean, even though Dean is an abusive, controlling dick to Sam pretty much all the time, is too much. I can’t stand woobie Dean, so I don’t care about DD’s struggles and Dean dealing with his actions when his demon self is gone and he’s just Dean again. All I wanted for this show is for Sam to be treated like a fully fleshed out human being, and if no one on SPN can do that for a lead character, then all of them should just leave the show for writers who actually can write for ALL leads like they have feelings and souls that matter. SPN only has two leads, regulars are just fill ins and padding, nice but not necessary. If one lead is constantly abused and neglected to prop the other one up, what does that say about who and what is running this show? Jared says this show is his family and his legacy, while Jeremy Carver does nothing but poop all over the character he plays every chance he gets. There’s only one true monster on SPN, and that monster is Jeremy Carver and his writing staff. Talk about dark, talk about evil. Jeremy Carver, I’m looking at it, and it’s you.
I actually really like what Carver’s done with the show. And I definitely wouldn’t call Dean abusive by any means, but you seem a bit biased so I don’t want to get into that. I’m looking forward to seeing how he is as a demon and then having Sam and Cas hopefully be able to get through to him and bring him back. Sam gets plenty of treatment on the show – I feel like he’s been fleshed out since the beginning, and for a long time he got a lot more to work with than anyone else. It’s nice to see it balanced better now. And I would argue that SPN definitely has more than two leads – the regulars aren’t fill ins by any means. Jensen was really highly complimentary of Misha and Mark at the TCAs this weekend and said they were vital to the story and to the brothers.
Thank you!
If jarred doesn’t have a problem with it then what is yours it’s a show not real life get over yourself really… jarred saying it’s his life and family is because they are close friends and get along good. It’s a show…..
Yes to everything you said. It’s gone ridiculous. Sam averages about 5 minutes of point of view a season, the rest goes to Dean. We understand everything about why Dean does what he does because we get it explained in explicit detail and its reinforced by other characters, we get nothing from Sam. Every single manly tear from Dean makes it on screen, Sam’s are cut. Dean laments to all characters about his woes while Sam suffers silently alone in his room.
Once Dean became a demon I thought that finally, we were going to see Deans questionable actions get focus and not just get whitewashed as they have so often in the past. I thought the same thing this season with the possession, that they couldn’t sweep it under the carpet, but they did. Sam goes with Ruby to try and save the lives of millions of people and that ‘betrayal’ is still being brought up years later. Dean violates Sam, trusts an angel and a vampire over him, disowns their brotherhood, betrays him and lies to him constantly and it’s brushed aside. Dean doesn’t need a Mark of Cain to be a demon, his actions in the last few seasons have been demonic enough.
But of course, Sam will be the ‘true monster’ of the season because he’ll be doing what Dean condemned him for not doing when he was in Purgatory. And when Dean is himself again, he’ll feel betrayed by and be disappointed in and not be able to trust Sam because Sam is a ‘true monster’ etc etc etc. Like we’ve had for the past 6 seasons. So much for an original idea from this team of writers.
You mean when Sam was getting his ego stroked by Ruby? Yes, his intentions were originally good but it was clear that his pride and vanity were spiked by the demon blood and Ruby telling him how special, powerful and great he was.
Dean NEVER trusted anybody over Sam, until Sam stabbed him in the back. Sam left Dean for dead in Purgatory without even taking a second to find out if he could be alive. You keep bringing up Dean not getting Cas out. Again, he needed the blood of a virgin, the blood of a Purgatory native, AND an full moon, all in one shot. So I get it, he’s the prick for not doing all this but Sam is completely innocent for not lifting a finger to even investigate what happened to Dean.
When the heck did Dean disown their brotherhood, except for very briefly in season 5 after Sam BETRAYED him with Ruby?
Yes Dean lied to Sam about the angel possession. Because Gadreel threatened to let Sam DIE if he told him! Why do you keep willfully ignoring that?
So i get it, all of Dean’s actions were purely because he’s a horrible prick, NOT because he wanted to do any good for the world or save Sam. But any of the more questionable things Sam ever did, like drinking demon blood, making fun of the pain and torture Dean went through in Hell, choosing a demon over his brother and nearly strangling him to death to protect her, not taking one second to even try to figure out what happened to him after his Purgatory disappearance, acting like he was sorry he was alive in the forst half of season 8, letting Kevin out to fend for himself, in ALL these things, Sam is innocent and blameless ans always had a noble reason for, But Dean never had any greater reason for any of his mistakes, no, he’s just a worthless lowlife prick. Ok.
And then you call me silly for calling you an ESG,which is plainly what you are. You’ll NEVER give Dean any quarter for anything because clearly you hate him while excusing any and all of Sam’s actions.
Tell me, who’s whitewashing the actions of whom?
Dean trusted the angels over Sam. I would imagine Sams ‘ego was stroked’ by his ability to save lives, because he drank blood, similar to the way that Dean’s ‘ego was stroked; when he took on the MoC so that he could kill Abbadon.
We’ve seen there was more than one way into Purgatory. And Dean knew that Castiel was in Purgatory, Sam didn’t know that Dean was.
He betrayed their brotherhood when he dumped the amulet, told Sam that Benny was more of a brother than Sam had ever been and told Sam that he didn’t think they could ever be what they were when they left the hospital in 5.01.
Why are you only considering Dean’s intentions and not Sam’s? Per you, Sam’s intentions for drinking blood was that he was getting his ego stroked, his pride and vanity. Why do you always consider Dean’s intentions to be so noble and virtuous while consider Sam’s so negatively?
I’m not ‘willfully ignoring’ why Dean lied, I’m pointing out that he did lie. Everyone has a reason why they lie, but you only focus on Deans reasons.
Sam chose a demon over Dean to try and save the world. Dean did the same thing when he chose Crowley over Sam in 5.20. (Or are you ‘willfully forgetting’ that?) He ‘nearly strangled him to death’ (wow, exaggeration much) in a fight, that Dean was an active participant in. This was after Dean called him a monster. He didn’t do it to protect Ruby. Do you recall Dean beating Soulless Sam past the point of unconsciousness, or knocking Sam clean off his feet after Sam had just come out of hospital with a severe head injury? Or is only Sam who tries to kill his brother for you?
The not looking for him has been addressed on more than one occasion. If you haven’t read then I’m not going to waste my time addressing it again. I doubt it would make any difference to you. You want to believe that Sam is a worthless, traitorous bastard then grand. That does seem to be the type of ‘bi-bro’ fan you are. Once who is all about the brothers as long as Sam does exactly what Dean tells him to do, never questions him and shows nothing but appreciation for everything he does, while Dean can treat Sam like crap.,
All you’ve done here is try to make Dean seem clean by blackening Sam, so yes, you are whitewashing Dean.
Wow. So many things wrong with this post. Nevermind all the times Dean saved his brother, put him above everyone and everything else. He’s an evil bastard. A true monster and demon. Just wow. I’m pretty sure Sam and Jared would disagree with you.
However, why is Dean saving his brother? Is he saving him for Sam or for Dean? And if Dean wants Sam safe and alive, then why does he want Sam hunting, because hunting is what gets them killed.
I wish Dean was the guy you describe because then your darlinh Sammy would be long dead and I wouldn’t have had to spend years watching him treat my favorite character like absolute shyte.
I’m afraid Sam won’t ever be long dead, not while the show is on. If Dean doesn’t bring him back then he’ll brought back some other way.
Jo you little bitch
shut your stupid mouth up
I can’t stand Super Special Snowflake Sam who is an abusive, controlling dick to Dean pretty much all the time. Sam threatens to leave, Sam issues ultimatums, it’s all about Sam. He’s jealous when Dean works with Castiel or Benny. The “angel” and “vampire” Dean had to turn to. If Dean hadn’t worked with Benny, Dean would still be in Purgatory, and based on the Sam we saw in Season 8 and 9, I think Sam would have preferred that.
My, but the Dean goggles are tight on this one!
Oooooh, yeah!
Dean is NOT an abusive controlling dick! Dean has given up any childhood dreams or any chance to find his own happiness to take care of Sam! Dean has ALWAYS put Sam above himself! He’s shown over and over again that he is willing to lay down his life for Sam! In what universe does that make anybody an abusive controlling dick? Not to mention the fact that in the end, Sam always does or doesn’t do whatever the heck he chooses, Dean doesn’t control him!
And oh .the POV thing. So they give Dean more POV. Big deal. They’ve given Sam almost ALL the major season long story arcs for the lion’s share of the series, except for season 9. I guess some fans don’t want Dean to have anything.
I personally predict that Sam will try and cured Dean since he’s a demon. we were definitely shown in season 8 that demons could be cured from being twisted souls back into their clean and pure souls. so strap Dean in and a chair underneath a devils trap and let the ritual begin.
Will Metatron be a big part of season 10
I had to change my tv provider to dish,
And Dish does not have the CW channel!!! Supernatural is my alltime favorite show and i have missed all of season 8!!! When will it update on netflix so i can catch up? Ir where can i go to see it? I will also miss season 9! It kills me. There are other shows on the cw channel i like and cannot watch anymore. Help!
They’re all on couchtuner.eu
I think the real hard part that no one even discusses is HOW will anyone save Dean when his body is dead? Metatron killed him. Its his soul that saved him along with the Mark but his body died. That’s the real conundrum. But it sounds like this season is gonna be pretty intense. The only thing I don’t look forward is Carver demolishing Sam’s integrity AGAIN!
He’ll be alive as long as the Mark is in him.
When the writers say ‘dark’, I don’t understand why they have to vilify the brothers to do so. While that might be interesting for a while, ultimately, Dean and Sam are supposed to be HEROS. Why do they keep shoving this ugliness in our faces? We know the boys are flawed, that they make mistakes. but after a while, it just gets ugly and unappetizing. :p
More of a question – with demon Dean, Sam doing things that question his “being a monster” and Castiel’s dilemma of how to stay alive, get his own grace back, etc. be a good way to end the series? I don’t know how the season will progress but I wonder how all of this fit together- it would be disappointing for this amazingly written show to end with everything going belly up. I know lots of people want it to continue past 10 seasons, as would I, but the way season 10 sounds like it does – are there possibilities of taking it further? What else would be left for them to fight after they each fight their own personal battles during this season?
Everything we heard from the TCAs indicated that they are willing to go beyond 10, so this may not be the end of the show. This depends on contracts and ratings, of course.
I’m sure they’ll find a way to fit everything together – I’m looking forward to seeing how Team Free Will overcomes all this drama and angst and hope s10 ends with all three of them in a good place to work together, hunting and maybe reforming the Men of Letters? Sounds like they want to continue past 10 so I guess we’ll see, but as long as Jensen, Jared, and Misha are all involved I’ll keep watching until they finally end it.
“because he (Dean) can’t blame it on anyone else but himself.” Dean blame himself is all what he ever did!
Different would be see Sam assuming some guilt over what happened to Dean, how to use his brother as a weapon against “God” or disown him for half of a season. Dean wasn’t just pushing Sam away, he was saving Sam’s life (again) at the end, when he chosen put only himself in the meat grinder.
Got any hope in spn is a waste of time.